Soc Takes was thrilled to interview Puerto Rico FC president Tom Payne this week. This is a largely unedited transcript of our interview, except for a small portion that was excised for an upcoming article about player signings. Make sure you read Bob Williams’ excellent earlier interview with Thomas Payne, too.
Consider this part one of a three-part PRFC special. Today, we’ll talk to Tom Payne about the upcoming CFU Championships and discuss his thoughts on the current status and the future plans of the NASL. In Part two and three, we’ll get head coach Adrian Whitbread’s thoughts as well as those of young forward, Sidney Rivera.
Nipun Chopra: Thank you for taking the time, Tom.
Tom Payne: My pleasure.
NC: Tell me about the process by which you got back into the CFU Championship.
TP: It was definitely a process. We saw something, sort of a leaked draw and our team wasn’t in it. This was back in December. We reached out to the federation and asked what was going on. They said “don’t worry about it.” The next thing you know, CONCACAF sends out the actual draw – a month or so go – it came out without us being in it. We were upset to say the least. If you look at the event, it’s an important one. It’s not like we’ll have 10 thousand people at these games, but for the passionate fans here and for the people who get behind Puerto Rican football, it’s really important. Not only were we upset, our fans were too. So we felt the need to do whatever we needed to do to get back into the tournament. I’m not going to get into too many of the specifics of it, but we had to have some negotiations to ensure our entry; things other teams didn’t have to do.
Photo credit: PRFC
NC: Without getting into specifics, are you able to pinpoint the mistake in the chain of command?
TP: Obviously, there was a breakdown between the federation here and CONCACAF. What we’ve been told is the paperwork wasn’t filed on time. Sounds like the federation said they filed it, but it went down the wrong avenue. Some of it might be because this was a CFU event, and CONCACAF only recently took it over. But that doesn’t change the fact that those things should have been doubled and triple-checked. The thing for me is it goes back to this time last year – we were already asking questions about what the qualification process was to get into the tournament. There’s actually a history here of teams qualifying and not going because they couldn’t afford it or other reasons.
For us, we did everything asked of us to qualify and then come to see that we weren’t in it, didn’t feel very good.
NC: The group (group D) you ended up in meant the winners were given a bye to the next round. Was there a reason you were drawn into that group, or was it purely chance and/or negotiation?
TP: We needed to figure out how we could get in when you already have five groups of 4 drawn up. One option according to CONCACAF was to push last year’s winner out to the next round. So group D didn’t change except for that one team.
NC: What about the other teams, were they receptive to PRFC coming into tournament, or was there push-back?
TP: I don’t think there was push-back. There was some concerns about added costs, because it’s more expensive with visas to come to PR, i.e. the USA, than it is to go to Trinidad. That’s one issue, i don’t think the travel itself is more expensive than it is to go to, say, Trinidad, with the exception of the team from Suriname.
PRFC president Thomas Payne. Photo credit: PRFC
NC: You’ve been in the game a while, you were at LA Galaxy, was this one of the more difficult logistical administrative things you’ve had to do?
TP: Yeah, I mean, I don’t want to get myself in trouble, but filing paperwork isn’t difficult. I just think a mistake was made, and we ended up paying a price. We were a bit annoyed, because we risked player injury and played in that tournament because we wanted to qualify for this. And then to find out that we’re not in it, that didn’t feel very good. We feel like we are fantastic soccer and community partners here in PR, but sometimes we feel like we are on a bit of an island. For the people of Puerto Rico and all of us, this is exciting and we’ll make sure it’s a success.
NC: Did the uncertainty from the off-season affect sponsorship deals for PRFC?
TP: Yeah, of course. I didn’t feel comfortable going to new sponsors; what am I talking to them about. Sitting in front of our biggest sponsor, Claro, they are the best, they do so much to us. I go to meet them, and their two executive separately asked me – “will you be playing next year? Are you going to be in a league? Which league?” It makes you a bit shy to go to new business if you don’t know which league you’ll be playing in. or how many games you’ll have? Or if the games will be on national TV. So it slows that part of it, and ticket sales.
But, we are back it, and we won’t use it as an excuse. We’ll tweak some things, maybe tweak our goal for sponsorships. On top of it, for us, that makes it a little more cumbersome; we are still a brand new team. We only got fully staffed last summer. So this is the first real off season for everyone here, and it was pretty crazy. We had the NASL thing, and then the CFU thing. It made for a bit of a daunting off-season. We’re glad everything worked out, we’re glad to be in NASL, we’re glad to be adding Deltas.
NC: Since we last spoke, the NASL schedule was released. Your reaction to the expected travel and costs?
TP: We knew we’d be going to SF twice and Edmonton twice. They have it worse than us (SF). Every trip for them except Edmonton is far away. People don’t realize that beyond the travel, it means that you’re going to a market 3 days instead of 2 days. It has a huge effect on your budget. On top of that, it isn’t easy on the players either.
We already knew what the deal was. It didn’t change anything from the budgetary standpoint. Is it ideal that we have to travel twice to Edmonton/Deltas? Obviously not. You’d like to have enough teams to have more local travel. But, we knew what we were up against after the way things shook out with NASL.
But, we’re going to play Cosmos 6 times, and we’ll rise to that challenge. To be the best, you have to beat the best, so we’re excited about that. We play Carolina six times, too. They had good results against us.
NC: Speaking of the budget, the way things played out with Strikers/Cosmos/Jacksonville/Rayo, word out of NASL camp is that they want to ensure those situations don’t repeat. One way is vetting, but for existing teams, it may mean some financial oversight. Have any of those conversations taken place?
TP: I think Deltas has the toughest of any of us. They live in the most expensive city, their travel is going to be outrageous, they probably have to pay a player more than you would here or any other markets just to live. They’re based downtown, which is great for the league, but makes it tough on a budget.
PRFC squares off against Rayo OKC during the 2016 season. Photo credit – NASL
More of that is incumbent on the team and the market. It’s incumbent on the league to know when the team is overspending. And taking risks that aren’t good for them and the rest of the league. If there’s one team out there, paying huge transfer fees and staying in five-star hotels, it’s not smart because it’s not sustainable.
The way I look at these things that certain people do things out of frivolity and maybe it’s cool to own a soccer team. But, eventually they look at it and say “why would I lose this kind of money every year.” I do believe that that’s what happened with Cosmos a little bit. I can basically predict these things some time – that you’re going to see a team in a position where they’re going to fold up because of their own arrogance and feeling of immortality. I think that’s what they’re talking about – trying to put some financial realities in place.
NC: But will you be required to provide any financial documentation over the year, like budgets or spending to the league?
TP: I don’t know if there’s going to be any of that. Because first of all, I don’t know if any of the people in the league have worked at the club level and wouldn’t understand the totality of it. For a team like ours, our team operations’ budget is by far the biggest of all. Guess what, there isn’t much room there. We probably have the lowest budget along with Jacksonville in the league, but still, it’s far and away the biggest portion of our budget. There’s no room to maneuver when you have to fly to San Fran and Edmonton. We have to travel, we have to stay in hotels, we have to eat. There isn’t much wiggle room in those sorts of situations.
The other thing is our team is putting the emphasis in the proper place. We won’t be handing out a thousand free tickets, because that’s not meaningful business. It will put you out of business. I can give you examples of that. We’ve had to deal with it a little bit here, too, because the team that was here prior to us did that and went out of business. I think that’s what NASL means – put real business plans in place.
They should spend the entirety of the year building their team, their business and be ready to go 100% next March instead of rushing it in the middle of the season.
One of the things I said to them is – I don’t want the league to come out and do this the wrong way. I know there are some good owners interested, but I don’t want them to start in the summer just b/c it looks good or feels good to people. It’s not smart. They should spend the entirety of the year building their team, their business and be ready to go 100% next March instead of rushing it in the middle of the season. I think that’s the sort of thing Rishi (Sehgal) is talking about; making sure teams are put in a position where they can succeed.
NC: That’s what I’m curious about. We’re in February, 3 months ago, we weren’t sure there would be a league. And as a fan, I’m curious if you’re convinced that NASL 2017 will be any different than NASL 2016.
Photo credit – NASL
TP: Hmmmm. Well, I think two of the problematic teams aren’t with us anymore; at this point last year, we already knew they were having issues. That’s Fort Lauderdale and Rayo. I think right now, for the most part, strong core ownership. The teams that remain are bullish on the NASL have strong ownership with significant markets. Those two markets – not taking a shot at them – they went into last season with significant ownership questions.
It’s not perfect. There are only 8 teams in a league. But, if it takes us a year to get things right with business planning and all that, then i’m all for it.
I’d rather do 3-4 things incredibly well, than do 6-things with mediocrity.
NC: People have speculated that this NASL season exists b/c of the fear of exit fee. In a phone conversation last month, Rishi Sehgal told me what you hinted at – that there is a central vision for the remaining owners. What is this vision that the 7 current owners have?
TP: I can’t get too much into the details. That’s probably more for Rishi. When all this was going on, you and I spoke, and you know I thought the other league (USL) was a decent option. There are some things that make NASL stand out; a national TV partner, the markets, some owners.
There is a real vision to build slowly. It’s easy to react to market forces and what people are saying and to perception. But, it’s not about the startup money; that’s pennies in the big picture. But, it’s looking at owners and saying, does he/she have the money, vision, fortitude to stick with it?
You need to want to do it for the right reasons. For example, being a part of your community. And to understand that you’re probably going to have several hard years initially – just like any business, really – you’re going to lose money in your first few years, without question.
Some owners want to cut people and people are your best asset. Especially front office people. When owners take shortcuts in those areas, you only have 1-2 ticket-sales people – you can’t expect to have a successful business.
NC: What about Cosmos, your thoughts on them rising from the ashes?
TP: I’ve really liked what I’ve heard from the new owner. His humble way of saying that we need to get players on the pitch and saying that he isn’t going to make statements he can’t back up. That was a problem last year — Which was “we’re this huge brand and we need to have offices on Park Avenue” and none of that was stooped in reality. At this level, you shouldn’t be losing the level of money reported with Cosmos. Sure, you’re going to lose some money initially, but that was absurd.
NC: Thoughts on Indy XI and North Carolina openly coveting an exit from the league?
TP: Yeah, well, I wouldn’t position it that way, I’d say they’re coveting an entry to the other league, as opposed to an exit from this one.
NC: What’s the difference?
TP: Look, I was very impressed with Indy; big crowd, neat little stadium set up, it’s one of those markets where you wonder if they have a shot. Because they have a couple of high-level teams, but not too many. So that might work. I don’t look at it that they’re pining to get out of the league. There are 12 teams who want MLS.
I think what’s good for MLS is good for us and good for soccer. If at the end of the day, there are many teams growing soccer around the country, that has a knock-on effect. It means a better, bigger sport environment for all of us. We all want to be in position where we have 9k/10k fans all the time. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge them their move to MLS, but sounds like there’s a long way to go for both those groups right now.
NC: Would you and Carmelo want to see PRFC in MLS someday?
Heritage night at PRFC. Photo credit – NASL
TP: I don’t ever say things that are pie in the sky. Sometimes i’ll read about markets that have nobody coming to USL games, want MLS teams. For me, personally, it’s a goal. For Carmelo, I think it’s a goal. Carmelo is bullish on the sport, and bullish on Puerto Rico. He really wants to do something special here. Someday if we got to the point where we have 9k/10k fans/game, and the economy turned around, it’s an interesting place and market. Because one thing we already do better than many is TV – we have 40k/50k fans watching each game in both English and Spanish. We have a more direct line to Champions League as things stand. But, anyone who is in it, has that a goal for something we want to do, but, we also know where we are as a franchise. We’ve tried to put a professional product on the pitch, but also off the pitch in how we do things.
Because, I think that becomes confidence in a consumer locally and for sponsors. If all things lineup and the economy comes around – which might takes some time – then who knows. I’d love that. I’d love to come to MLS with a team that I started.
NC: Thank you for taking the time to speak with me, Tom.
TP: Thank you.
Follow Nipun on Twitter: @NipunChopra7.
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